Wendy’s VS Wendy’s – Ep. 39 [Podcast]

Summary:

If you stopped off at Wendy’s for a tasty burger and fries and found yourself eating fish and chips instead, you might be in the Dutch province of Zeeland, where they don’t take kindly to expanding American fast-food chains. Today we’re joined by special guest Jan-Willem Goedmakers. to talk about the trademark battle of Wendy’s versus Wendy’s.

Transcript: 

Raymond Guarnieri:

If you stopped off at Wendy’s for a tasty burger and fries, and found yourself eating fish and chips instead, you might be in the Dutch province of Zeeland where they don’t take kindly to expanding American fast food chains.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Today, we’re joined by special guest Jan-Willem Goedmakers to talk about the trademark battle of Wendy’s versus Wendy’s. This is Stuff You Should Know About IP.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Today’s episode of Stuff You Should Know About IP is brought to you by the Trademark Lawyer Magazine. If you want to stay up to date with everything that’s going on in the world of IP and trademarks, go to www.trademarklawyermagazine.com. Each issue is free to read for up to eight weeks. That’s trademarklawyermagazine.com for global news in the world of trademarks.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Okay, Jan-Willem, Tom, please.

Tom Colson:

Yeah. Let me frame this.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Let us feast on the story of Wendy’s versus Wendy’s.

Tom Colson:

Okay. Yeah. Let me just frame this first.

Tom Colson:

Wendy’s. Most people watching have probably heard of one of the two Wendy’s, probably the US Wendy’s, because they have like 6,500 stores throughout the world. In the ’70s or by the mid-’80s, Wendy’s had a bunch of European stores. In fact, they had six in the Benelux region, which is the Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg region, but they gave up their stores by the mid-’80s.

Tom Colson:

By the way, they also had Benelux trademark registrations. Just to give you a quick background on that. In 1971, the Benelux nations adopted a trademark law. It covers those three nations. So if you get a trademark in the Netherlands, it counts for Belgium and Luxembourg. Then in 1993, I think November 1st, 1993, something like that, coincidentally, in the Netherlands, the EU was formed. So those trademark registrations would then become EU trademark registrations.

Tom Colson:

So in the ’70s, the US Wendy’s had trademark registrations and stores in the Benelux region and in the Netherlands. In fact, I think they had one in Rotterdam at that time. But then they pulled out.

Tom Colson:

Now, trademark rights, as you know by now, because you’ve probably watched dozens of our podcasts, trademark rights flow from usage and registration, but you have to be using it or you can’t get a registration. When the US Wendy’s pulled out, there was no more trademark registration there for them.

Tom Colson:

Then, in 1988 or so, this totally wild guy named Raymond Warrens opens up a store to sell hamburgers, and fish and chips, and things like that in a town called, am I saying it right, Zeeland?

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

No. The province is Zeeland. The town called Goes.

Tom Colson:

Town is Goes.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Goes.

Tom Colson:

Goes, Goes, Goes. Okay. Goes. He opens-

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Sounds a little bit like a goose, like the big bird.

Tom Colson:

Right. So this is this little tiny town. I think it’s like … Well, I think Zeeland, the entire province, only has like 37,000 people. It’s area of islands and peninsulas. It’s to the far west of the Netherlands. I’ve been to the Netherlands 30 or 40 times. I’ve never been there, never even heard of it until this podcast.

Tom Colson:

It’s this little tiny place, and this really tough, hair metal band guy, he’s got a mullet, smokes a ton of cigarettes, and he’s got this two table restaurant named after his daughter, coincidentally, because that’s what Dave Thomas, when he started, named after his daughter, Melinda Lou, named it Wendy’s, because she couldn’t pronounce the word Melinda. She would call it Wenda, so he named it Wendy’s. So they both named their restaurants after their daughters. This guy, Raymond Warrens, is a no nonsense, no BS guy who does not like to be bullied.

Tom Colson:

Wendy’s wants to get back into Europe. They first file a registration, which Warrens opposes. Then they try to invalidate Warren’s trademark so that it can’t be used against them as they get the registration. Blah, blah, blah. Years, years, years. Here we are today with the Dutch court finally ruling mostly against the US Wendy’s, saying that they won’t invalidate the trademark Wendy’s for fast food, but they do invalidate it for food, actual food, just not fast food.

Tom Colson:

So here we are. Jan-Willem, you’re a Dutch guy. I’m sure you’re thrilled about this Dutch victory, the little guy over the big guy, crushing the Americans. What do you think?

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Well, yeah, in a way, yes, because one of the … I think, looking at this, I have seen this kind of stuff happen before, where the problem basically comes from cultural differences. Because I’m pretty sure that if US Wendy’s hadn’t gone in all guns blazing, that they would have come to an amicable settlement.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

But because of the way they did it, which is as they basically, as I got in an interview with the guy where he said, “Well, it was … The Americans came in with shoot first, ask questions later. I just don’t like to be bullied.”

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

In fact, in some of the proceedings before the court, Wendy’s even argued that he was only going after them, and not other people who were using the name Wendy’s, well, because they basically brought it upon themselves by being so obnoxious in the first place.

Tom Colson:

Oh, wait. So they were saying that he opposed the Wendy’s trademark registration, but did not oppose other Wendy’s-ish trademark registrations. And they say, essentially, he’s bullying them.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Well, yeah. But you don’t really have [crosstalk 00:06:44] when you’re that big.

Tom Colson:

Targeting, targeting them. Right, yeah. Targeting them, not bullying, targeting.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah. But obviously, he was targeting them because, at first, what they had tried was that they said that he was not having a normal use of the trademark because he had only one store.

Tom Colson:

Right. And out of three nations, right?

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah.

Tom Colson:

One corner of the Netherlands, a little tiny town with a little tiny store, and it’s blocking Belgium and Luxembourg as well because of this Benelux trademark.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah. But if you look at the real history is what this guy also said in court and what he argued, he says, “Look. I registered the trademark.” I think it was 1995.

Tom Colson:

1995.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah. He registered it in 1995 because he was actually thinking about opening another store. But then Wendy’s came in and started bullying him, and that actually, because he feared losing this, and because of that, he didn’t open another store.

Tom Colson:

Okay.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Now, he won this case in 2017. After that, he opened another store in [inaudible 00:08:09], which is also in Zeeland, by the way, but it’s quite close to Rotterdam. It’s one of those things where he said that, “Well, the reason I don’t have a bigger empire is because of you guys make my life miserable.”

Tom Colson:

I love it. He doesn’t have a bigger empire. I love it.

Tom Colson:

The other thing I love about this guy-

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Well, that’s my translation. That’s not what he said.

Tom Colson:

Right, right, right. He’s interviewed, and he refers to the Wendy’s lawyers as the CSI ladies.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yes, because they wore-

Tom Colson:

He says they dress too well.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Oh my-

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah. They looked very lawyer-like, apparently. That’s where the reference with, “Oh, they think I’m just this farmer that they can easily move to the side.”

Tom Colson:

Yeah. The thing that surprises me is this guy’s store is really small in a really tiny part of the world. Wendy’s has 6,500 stores. You’d think they would’ve just gone in and just started by buying his store. They could’ve made him an offer he couldn’t refuse. They could have just brought a big suitcase full of money. Maybe had Raymond Reddington from Blacklist do it. He could have walked in with his bag of money and said, “Take the money or else,” and they would’ve been gone.

Tom Colson:

Then, like you said, he wouldn’t have gotten his back up, because he wouldn’t have been being bullied. He would’ve instead been being sucked up to, and given him a whole bunch of money. Then he goes out. He’s just happy. He’s made a huge victory instead of having to defend himself. But apparently, they didn’t approach it that way.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah. Or they could have said, “Well, we really appreciate that you have this trademark. Of course, we don’t want to take it away from you, but would you really mind if we started our Wendy’s, because I don’t think this would be a big problem?”

Tom Colson:

Yeah, except-

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Sort of consenting to this double registration and arguing, in that case, in the beginning, which by the way, they did argue later in appeal, and they tried to … that goods were different enough that they should allow to have both of them registered, but the courts didn’t buy that.

Tom Colson:

Yeah. The other thing that surprises me is they’re extremely different marks when you look at the whole logo, right?

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

[crosstalk 00:10:47]

Tom Colson:

Yeah. There’s words, there’s images, and then there’s these logos or composite marks, which are comprised of words and images. They’re very different. No one would ever confuse them. The US Wendy’s has the little girl with the pigtails and the freckles. The other one’s just, Wendy’s with a couple lines around it.

Tom Colson:

I don’t know EU trademark law, but I’m wondering why Wendy’s doesn’t simply start opening up stores in the EU and not get a registration. Just start opening stores with the Wendy’s mark, and then let Raymond Warren sue them for trademark infringement, which he would lose because there’s no likelihood of confusion. They’re absolutely different marks. No one would ever confuse the two. But they haven’t done that, apparently.

Raymond Guarnieri:

I have a question.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

[crosstalk 00:11:38]

Raymond Guarnieri:

Go ahead. Sorry.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

[crosstalk 00:11:40] Go ahead.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Does the EU have common law trademarks? If you just start using it … I don’t know if I’m getting the definition of the common law trademark right. If you just start using it-

Tom Colson:

No, no. No. That’s right. In the US, you have common law rights. Yeah. You could just start using … In fact, trademark rights in the US flow from usage more than registration. I think in the EU, it’s more like you have to have usage to get registration, but you need registration. But I’m not an EU trademark lawyer. What do you think, Jan-Willem?

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Well, I’m not an EU trademark lawyer, but there is one subtle difference here is that they were trying to get the registration in the EU. Now, the Benelux is only a registration for Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg. But Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg each are members of the EU. So basically, this trademark in the Benelux conflicts with an EU trademark.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Now, that said, it is not possible to get a trademark in the Netherlands or Belgium or Luxembourg alone. You have to have a Benelux trademark, because they set it up so that, in a practical way, they didn’t think that for each country that would be … Yeah. That would be too much work.

Tom Colson:

Yeah, so in 1971-

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

But you can have-

Tom Colson:

… they all abandoned their own national trademark programs, right?

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

No. Not all. No. They didn.t.

Tom Colson:

No, no. Those three.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

You can still file … Those three [inaudible 00:13:18] Yes. Those three abandoned that, but you could still-

Tom Colson:

And they all decided they’re going to have one. Yeah.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah. So they have the Benelux trademark office and they will take care of it.

Tom Colson:

Gotcha.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Now, this doesn’t go for France, Germany and a lot of the other countries in the EU. So Wendy’s is completely free to file a trademark in Germany, France and Italy, and have stores there. That’s really not a problem.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

My hunch is is that what they did is that they filed this EU trademark, that they didn’t do the research, but just thought, “Oh well, we’ll just file it, and we’ll see what happens. If somebody is objecting, we will bully them out of it.” And then you got this …

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

It’s likely that this might have been the mistake of an individual trademark lawyer at Wendy’s who didn’t do his job properly, and when things got bad and they turned out to be a conflict, that instead of saying, “How can we solve this amicably?” what they did is that they went in all guns blazing, just in order not to lose face.

Tom Colson:

Oh right. Then they went online, and they saw a picture of the Wendy’s and Raymond Warrens and thought, “Oh, this is a little tiny two table shop. This chain smoking, mullet wearing, heavy metal band listening to guy is going to not have the money to defend. He’ll just cave.”

Tom Colson:

But you said, JW, that this is a very unique part of the Netherlands. You said that these are very nice people, but they can be stubborn.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Well, yes. It is. They are known to be stubborn, and they have this very strong sense of justice, and they don’t like to be bullied. In that respect-

Raymond Guarnieri:

I like these people.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

You know what it is. I think the way they felt is that … Yeah. It reminds me a bit of that movie My Cousin Vinnie.

Tom Colson:

Yeah. Joe Pesci. Who was the woman?

Raymond Guarnieri:

[crosstalk 00:15:43]

Tom Colson:

Marisa Tomei.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Marisa Tomei, yeah.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah. Also, there is this corporate [inaudible 00:15:49] I think there was also a murder involved, if I remember correctly.

Tom Colson:

Yeah, yeah.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

But what happens there is that it’s like, “Oh, we will just walk over these small town lawyers,” and that really fires them up to do the best defense that they can have. I think this is a similar case here.

Tom Colson:

Yeah. I think you’re right. The funny thing is the response from people. My first thought was, “Well, that’s too bad for the Benelux region, because if they can keep Wendy’s out …”

Tom Colson:

Again, I would just start putting stores up and let them sue me for trademark infringement, see if they can prove likelihood of confusion with those totally different marks.

Tom Colson:

But let’s say they could keep Wendy’s out. I thought that’s too bad for the Benelux region, because I love Wendy’s. You got to have the Wendy burger, because it’s a great experience. Because of a little tiny town in a place that probably most people in the Netherlands have never even been to, you can’t have Wendy’s anywhere in Belgium and Luxembourg and most of the Netherlands.

Tom Colson:

Then I read online all this hate mail that Raymond Warrens was getting from people basically telling him, “Just go away. We want Wendy’s. We want the real Wendy’s,” like all caps, R-E-A-L. “We want the real Wendy’s here.” It’s funny, because that’s exactly how I thought. I’m like, “That’s too bad. You can’t get Wendy’s.” In fact, I’m so excited about Wendy’s, after this podcast, I’m going to Wendy’s.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Oh, okay. Well, unfortunately, I can’t.

Tom Colson:

Yeah, right. Exactly.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

So eat a burger for me.

Tom Colson:

Exactly. I’m going to have to … I’m going to FedEx a burger to you, although it might not be good by then. But yeah, unfortunately, you can’t-

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

No. It might have cooled down.

Tom Colson:

Right.

Raymond Guarnieri:

I want to go to the Dutch Wendy’s.

Tom Colson:

Oh, I’d love [crosstalk 00:17:46] Next time we’re in the-

Raymond Guarnieri:

[crosstalk 00:17:47] I’ve been there now after doing this podcast. I want to [crosstalk 00:17:50].

Tom Colson:

Jan-Willem, your town is [foreign language 00:17:54]?

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah. It’s near must [foreign language 00:17:56], yeah.

Tom Colson:

How far is that? How long will that take you by car to get to Raymond Warren’s place?

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

At least two hours.

Tom Colson:

Oh, two hours. But in the US, two hours is nothing.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Oh yeah. In the US, it’s nothing. From here, actually, because I’m all the way in the east of the Netherlands, and Goes is all the way in the west. So you basically have the breadth of the Netherlands that you are talking about.

Raymond Guarnieri:

The whole country, yeah.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

The whole country.

Tom Colson:

Right, but in two hours, you could be sitting at one of his two tables, listening to that hair metal band, watching him chain smoke his cigarettes, and eating the Wendy burger.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah. Possibly. I don’t know if it’s a good burger. Would be interesting to find out. Yeah.

Tom Colson:

Is it close to Amsterdam? Because Amsterdam is very much north, right?

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

No, no, no. Amsterdam is more north from here.

Tom Colson:

[crosstalk 00:18:50] southwest.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah. It’s slightly north of here, because we are really very south in the Netherlands.

Tom Colson:

Yeah, you’re basically in Belgium.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

You would have to go up about 50 kilometers, and then all the way to the west part of the Netherlands. That’s where-

Tom Colson:

You and Joe, you’re going to have to jump in the car and go introduce yourselves to Raymond Warrens.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yes. I will point this out. I will point out the podcast to him.

Tom Colson:

That’s right, exactly. Yes, exactly. Then you can let him know that if he’s ever in the US, I’ll treat him to a Wendy burger.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Okay. I will tell him that.

Tom Colson:

A real Wendy burger.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Well, I think he might actually, he might have had those, because I have been to Wendy’s when they were still here in the ’80s.

Tom Colson:

Okay, yeah. By the way, that was one of the accusations that Wendy’s in the US made is that he did it in bad faith. He knew all about Wendy’s, and then as soon as they left, he opened up Wendy’s just because he wanted to leverage their name. But he does have a daughter named Wendy.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Having a daughter named Wendy, I feel like throws that-

Tom Colson:

That helps.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Not only that, they also argued that the decor that he had was US looking, American looking. They had an American flag and those kind of things, which they thought was too much like Wendy’s. But the guy could easily defend himself on that and say, “Look. I bought this cafe from someone else, and it already looked like that.”

Tom Colson:

Right, right. And by the way, my daughter’s name is Wendy. Dave Thomas’s daughter’s name is not Wendy.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Even Wendy, yeah.

Tom Colson:

It’s Melinda. It’s Melinda Lou or something like that. So dude, I have a daughter named Wendy, so come on. Back off. Anyway-

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

I think the other … To be honest, reading about it, I thought that the arguments that big Wendy’s made were not very strong, because they tried to … When you try to make arguments about bad faith and confusion, and then later on say, “Oh, well, we think we could coexist because there is not likely going to be confusion,” even if that’s factually correct, yeah, I don’t think the courts generally like it if you first argue one way and then the exact opposite. And when the argument’s about bad faith, if it’s bad faith, you have to really prove that it is bad faith.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

The guy could very easily defend himself. Raymond was saying, “Well, your argument that I don’t have any more stores, I have only one store. Well, I wanted to expand, which is why I registered the trademark. But then you guys came with all those lawsuits, and I was like, ‘Let’s hold off on that a little bit.'”

Tom Colson:

Right. But also though, I don’t think it’s a bad case that Raymond Warrens has. Wendy’s left. They left.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Exactly.

Tom Colson:

They left. They abandoned their trademark. It was wide open then. And he has a kid named Wendy. And oh, by the way, it’s not like he copied the pigtail girl. He has a totally different logo. I don’t see how it’s not totally in Raymond Warren’s favor to keep his trademark.

Tom Colson:

My position would be Wendy’s should be able to get trademark registration on the composite mark that contains the graphics as well, because there’s no likelihood of confusion.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yes. I don’t think that would-

Tom Colson:

You know what I mean? That seems obvious.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah.

Tom Colson:

The other side is just start going in there and putting up stores, because there’s no likelihood of confusion. But they definitely …

Tom Colson:

I don’t see why Raymond Warrens would lose his trademark. He’s doing everything right. He’s using his trademark in commerce at his little two table store. There’s nothing wrong with that. He didn’t create the Benelux laws. He did not create the laws that say that when you have a Benelux trademark, it counts in three countries.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Now, if he really wanted to start trolling Wendy’s, he would put a picture of a little blonde girl with pigtails up on his billboard.

Tom Colson:

Yeah. Oh, by the way, I grew up looking at the little Dutch girl images, and they always had pigtails. So maybe-

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

I can add something to that as well, because those pigtails and the white [inaudible 00:23:38] hat. I don’t know what you would call it.

Tom Colson:

Yeah. It’s kind of like a sailor’s, a boat hat or something.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah. Well, that is coming from the province of Zeeland as well.

Tom Colson:

Ah yeah. So he could have maybe done that. But here’s the thing. He didn’t. They’re two totally different trademarks, other than the name, but visually, they’re totally different. I don’t even know what we’re fighting about, honestly.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah. Honestly, I think that this is some guy’s corporate ego got in the way. He was like, “Oh, we’re going to crush them.”

Tom Colson:

And he ran into the wrong guy with Raymond Warrens.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

He ran into the wrong guy. The other thing that he didn’t know … This is why, if you try to do this kind of lawsuits in another country, you should get advice from local lawyers.

Tom Colson:

Yes. You are so right.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

It is very important that you do that, because these Dutch lawyers would tell you, if you go to court and you lose, you don’t just lose the cost of your lawyers, but you typically also have to pay for the cost of the winning party.

Tom Colson:

Wow. Yeah. In the US, that could happen, but it’s not typical.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

It’s not typical.

Tom Colson:

You’re saying it’s typical. It’s typical in Dutch courts.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

It’s typical. Yes. Which is why, if you come from a US perspective, if you can think, “Oh, I’m going to sue this guy out of court, because my money will run out a lot later than his.”

Tom Colson:

Yes. Right.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

But in this case, because in the Netherlands, they have more of a feeling that you also should protect the little guy …

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

I think, actually, you have this one video wherein you talk about your client who in the end prevailed, but then he said, “Yeah, but what did I win? Because basically, it cost me shitload load of money, and the only thing I have is that I can continue doing which I was doing before.”

Tom Colson:

Exactly. I’m thrilled that you brought that up for two reasons. One, you’re right. And two, I’m glad you’re watching my videos.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Oh yeah. Well, you know I do.

Tom Colson:

Hey, here’s a funny video story. One of our coworkers had a holiday party yesterday. I show up, and this woman is looking at me funny. She says, “Do you do training videos?” She said, “I just watched you on video today.”

Raymond Guarnieri:

Oh my goodness. That’s so funny. [crosstalk 00:26:22]

Tom Colson:

Yeah. I love it.

Tom Colson:

Anyway, you’re right. That’s exactly right. In the US, you can, a lot of times, beat the person down financially. I don’t think it’s as normal to give attorneys fees as it is in the Dutch courts.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Yeah.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah. In that case, that’s why, for Raymond Warren, even though he has only a relatively small business, and typically these cases, it is cheaper to go to court in the Netherlands than in the US, but he manages to do this and not lose too much money. He will have to pay his lawyer beforehand. Yeah. Because there’s no [crosstalk 00:27:06]

Tom Colson:

Right. You have to front the money and then hope you get it back, but it’s more likely to get it back in Dutch courts.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah.

Tom Colson:

By the way, this is a good example. We do these videos that we call Colson rules. It’s basically a minute and a half of some topic that’s of interest. We did one, and we referenced that IP, intellectual property, is sometimes referred to as the great equalizer.

Tom Colson:

Like in the Wild West in the US, the Colt 45 was the great equalizer. You could be five feet seven, thin, and go up against a guy who’s six foot four. With a gun, it’s a great equalizer. Everyone’s the same height when you have the Colt 45.

Tom Colson:

In many ways, Raymond Warrens is proving that, because he has the great equalizer, the trademark registration. He’s one little guy in a small shop in a little town, and he’s standing up against 6,500 stores, because he’s got the great equalizer, the trademark.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Yeah.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah. That’s a good point. That’s I think he’s … For him, which is what he says, “It became just a matter of principle. I don’t want to be bullied.”

Tom Colson:

Yeah. It’s really kind of a noble thing. I told you before we started, it seems very American. He’s not American, but Americans tend to like to think of themselves as, “Oh, we don’t take anything from anybody,” going back to the Revolutionary War days. It’s a mentality that I think resonates well with Americans, except that it’s Wendy’s, and everybody likes the Wendy’s burger.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah, well.

Tom Colson:

Yeah. You can’t have everything in this world. You can still have Burger King and McDonald’s and Domino’s, because they’re spreading all over Europe.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah. But keep in mind that in a lot of companies, which are actually good companies, when you deal with their legal department, sometimes things get ugly.

Tom Colson:

You’re right. You’re right. Sometimes they don’t have perspective.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah. They’re not necessarily aligned with the business, but they only follow policies.

Tom Colson:

Right, right. Yeah. Well, we’re thrilled that you joined us today, Jan-Willem.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Thanks for joining us, Jan-Willem.

Jan-Willem Goedmakers:

Yeah. You’re welcome.

Raymond Guarnieri:

For everyone listening, if you enjoyed this podcast on Wendy’s versus Wendy’s, and you’re probably craving burgers like we all are, before you go out and get your burger, don’t forget to like and share this podcast, and leave a comment. Share your thoughts, and let us know which you prefer, which Wendy’s you want. Okay. Thanks, everyone.

Male:

See ya.