Marvel VS DC: Trademark Treaty Saga – Ep. 26 [Podcast]

Summary

In this week’s episode of Stuff You Should Know About IP, Thomas Colson and Raymond Guarnieri discuss a trademark for the word “superhero.” In 1979, DC Comics and Marvel trademarked “superhero” in connection with comic books. Both companies had been independently using that term for decades, so if either company – on its own – had tried to trademark “superhero,” the other company could have successfully opposed it. A trademark is something – including a word, a graphic, a logo, a color scheme, a scent, or a shape – that designates the origin of a product or service. Different categories of trademarks have different strengths, and they include, in decreasing order of strength: fanciful marks, arbitrary marks, and suggestive marks. Typically, a mark that is merely descriptive is ineligible for trademark protection, though an exception exists for a descriptive mark that has acquired secondary meaning. If a trademark becomes generic, it can become unenforceable. The trademark for “superhero” is unusual for two reasons: 1) two companies hold the mark, so the mark does not necessarily designate the actual source of a product; and 2) the term has been genericized. During a legal action, a large company that can afford prolonged, expensive litigation has an advantage over a less affluent company.

Transcript

Raymond Guarnieri:

Do we need a superhero to come in and oppose the superhero trademark of DC Comics and Marvel? Who will save us? Iron Man, Wonder Woman, the Guardians of the Galaxy? Quick! Somebody light the bat signal. It’s time for stuff you should know about IP.

Thomas Colson:

If you can get Wonder Woman on our show, Ray, we’re doing pretty well.

Raymond Guarnieri:

If we can get Batman on our show, we might be able to figure out who Batman really is. For a while, I had my bets on Michael but …

Thomas Colson:

It’s more Ray than Michael today.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Oh, please.

Thomas Colson:

Because you got the beard. The beard, I mean-

Raymond Guarnieri:

True. Wait, did he have a beard?

Thomas Colson:

If he didn’t, he would if you were around today, because beards are really in.

Raymond Guarnieri:

We need a bearded superhero.

Thomas Colson:

Yes. Agreed. It will be you.

Raymond Guarnieri:

I don’t think this is what this podcast is supposed to be about.

Thomas Colson:

Let’s get into our trademark stuff.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Yes. You can apparently trademark the word superhero, which was a kind of a surprise to me.

Thomas Colson:

Well, you can’t and I can’t, but DC Comics and Marvel can.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Right, and why is that?

Thomas Colson:

So yeah. The reason I wanted to do that one today, I was driving back from swim practice and I was thinking about, I heard something on the news about DC Comics and Marvel having a trademark on the term superhero. And I thought that was weird. So I did a little bit of reading this morning. So let’s do a little background. How about that? Who are these companies, DC Comics and Marvel? So DC Comics was founded in 1934 and you might know their heroes. Like they have Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, and of course Aquaman. I love Aquaman [crosstalk 00:02:00].

Thomas Colson:

Now they were purchased in 1969 by Warner Brothers. So you got DC Comics and then Marvel. So DC Comics is 1934, founded in 1934. Marvel is founded in 1939. And these two become like the big giants in the comic book industry. And Marvel, they have some good characters as well. They’ve got Captain America. And remember in 1939, think about what’s happening in 1939, World War II starts, right? Nazi Germany. Captain America, a Marvel comic character was fighting against the Nazis and the Japanese in 1939 and 1940 before we were even at war against the Germans and the Japanese.

Raymond Guarnieri:

That’s interesting.

Thomas Colson:

Yeah. I discovered that today. So they start with Captain America, but over time they come up with some pretty cool characters of their own. They have the Fantastic Four. I remember those guys. You got flame on, you got the big stone creature. You got the stretchy guy. And then you got the woman.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Mr. Stretch. The Stretch.

Thomas Colson:

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, you got the guy who could fly who’s like flaming, you got the stone creature that’s kind of like another version of the Incredible Hulk. Interestingly, they also created the Incredible Hulk. You got the stretchy guy and then you got the woman who I think she becomes invisible or something. I don’t know. But anyway, so you got

Raymond Guarnieri:

Yeah. Comic book geeks out there are like rolling over in their 

Thomas Colson:

Yeah, they’re dying over what I’m saying. They’re absolutely dying.

Raymond Guarnieri:

They’re so mad at us right now. This might be our most hated podcast.

Thomas Colson:

I know. I don’t know much about superheros. Although my favorite superhero of all time is Spider-Man. And Spider-Man is also owned by Marvel. They own the Incredible Hulk, they own X-Men.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Why Spider-Man though? That’s an interesting choice for-

Thomas Colson:

Why I like Spider-Man?

Raymond Guarnieri:

Yeah. I don’t know why.

Thomas Colson:

I like Spider-Man. Watch any of these newer Spider-Man movies. Unlike Superman, who you just can’t beat, he’s just flawless. Other than kryptonite, you can’t beat the guy. Spider-Man, he seems fairly human. And you know what I love about the guy is whenever … I mean, humans in general, we go into dangerous situations with caution. Watch a Spider-Man movie. The guy flies into the most dangerous situation. I don’t mean flies because he can’t fly, but he’s got his own way of doing that. And it’s impressive. It’s what we aspire to be.

Thomas Colson:

Superheroes are not real, but they’re what we all want to be because they do the right thing no matter what happens. No matter what the consequences to themselves. And we all want to be that, but none of us really are that. Every once in a while there’s real life superheroes, or at least real life heroes. They might not have super powers. But to me, if you can go into a dangerous situation where you could die or be seriously injured to do the right thing and help someone, that is a superpower. You can’t fly, you can’t shoot webs out of your wrist, you don’t have laser vision, but to have the courage to go into a situation where you know you can die to save someone, that’s a superpower.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Superman’s not really very courageous at all. Oh, I probably just made a lot of people mad.

Thomas Colson:

Superman doesn’t impress me though. He doesn’t impress me because you can’t hurt the guy in most cases. So, you know there’s a difference between the term fearless and courageous. You cannot be courageous unless you’re fearful. If you’re fearless, you’re not actually doing anything. I go on a swing set, it doesn’t scare me. I drive my car, it doesn’t scare me. I run into a burning building. If I’m not afraid, I haven’t done anything courageous. So the essence of courage is being afraid and doing it anyway. And Superman, what does he have to be afraid of? How many people are carrying kryptonite around with them? You see a bank robber, they usually don’t use kryptonite.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Right. It’s one or two evil villains.

Thomas Colson:

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, other than Lex Luther who somehow figured it out, he’s never really afraid because why would he be? Nothing can hurt the guy. But that’s why other characters-

Raymond Guarnieri:

Okay, we digress. I didn’t mean to get us so off track, but I’m glad I did.

Thomas Colson:

Look, we all love superheroes, right? Because it’s what we aspire to be. We all want to be that.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Right. It’s what makes this interesting.

Thomas Colson:

But anyway, so Marvel starts in 1939. They are purchased by Disney in 2009. So, going along the timeline in like 1979, Marvel and DC Comics joined forces to get a trademark together on the term superhero in connection with comic books. And from what I read this morning, the reason they did that is they knew that neither of them could get it separately because they’d both been using it forever, since the ’40s and ’50s. So they would oppose each other and neither would end up with the trademark. So they joined forces. They get a trademark for superheroes or superhero in connection with comic books.

Thomas Colson:

Now, interestingly, I did find that one of them acquired a trademark on superhero in 1966 for masquerade costumes, but they weren’t united at that time, but they both own it now. So I’m guessing that they probably joined forces in 1979, got that one, and then did like a license or assignment. Probably assignments since they both own it, so that they now going forward, they both own the superhero mark.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Interesting.

Thomas Colson:

And so they own it. And they extended it beyond comic books after that. They got action figures, cookies. I saw something on cookies. They’ve got clothing, they’ve got cafes, they’ve got video games.

Thomas Colson:

So what is a trademark? A trademark is something that designates the source or origin of a product or service in the marketplace. It could be a name or a word, it could be a graphic, it could be a logo, which is a combination of a word and a graphic. It could be a color scheme. It could be a scent. We know that, it can be a scent. It’s hard to get, but it could be a scent. It could be a shape.

Thomas Colson:

So anyway, they get superhero for comic books. Now remember, a trademark is nothing without a product or a service in the marketplace. You can’t just get a trademark on a concept. Somebody called me recently and said, “Hey Tom, I got this great idea for a trademark. Can I get a trademark on this word?” And I’m like, “I don’t know. What’s the product that it’s with?” He goes, “I don’t know yet. I’m thinking about it, but it’s a cool word, isn’t it?” I said, “Yeah, it’s a pretty cool word, but …” and I explained, trademarks don’t exist. They have an even stronger bond with products and services than peanut butter and jelly.

Thomas Colson:

Because you can still have peanut butter with Fluffernutter, or just plain old peanut butter on bread. But trademarks must be connected to products or services in the marketplace. So they get it for comic books. Then they get it for all these other things over time since then. Then they started enforcing it. So other people want to use the term superhero. And why do you think other people want to use the term superhero? Because it’s generic, right?

Raymond Guarnieri:

Yeah. You could apply it to many things.

Thomas Colson:

It’s a generic term. I mean, that’s the thing that blows me away is it’s a generic term. And we’re going to get into that in a second. But just to give you some examples. Some guy writes a self-help book called From Zero to Superhero. He files a trademark on From Zero to Superhero in connection with books. He gets opposed by DC Comics and Marvel because he’s using the term superhero. And they own that trademark on books. But they don’t own it on self-help books.

Thomas Colson:

And now by the way, that guy ultimately prevailed. But here’s the biggest problem. DC Comics is owned by Warner Brothers. Marvel is owned by Disney. These are some pretty big players. And as you’ve learned now, Ray, over the years of working with me, litigation is really expensive. The fact that you’re right doesn’t really mean anything if you don’t have the money to defend yourself. So, typically they oppose trademarks and they just crush people because they don’t have the money.

Thomas Colson:

And I just have a couple of examples. I saw online. There was somebody with like a cleaning detergent thing called Superhero. They crushed them. They had Dr. Blink: Superhero Shrink comic book. Can’t even use the word superhero in a Dr. Blink: Superhero Shrink comic book. A children’s book, Superhero Ellie. They opposed them. A Creamery, Superhero Creamery. They opposed them. An organic food place has Superhero Organs. They opposed them. And they’re doing this a lot. I’m giving you a tiny little list of like-

Raymond Guarnieri:

That’s a weird name for an organic food place.

Thomas Colson:

Yeah. Superhero Organ, that’s a little weird. I know. Exactly, when I saw Superhero Organ, I thought maybe it was an organ transplant company or something.  hey they’re superheroes. They’re transplanting organs. But no, it was like an organic, it was best of organic. And it was super. Weird name, but still, they were opposed because again, there is who’s right and there is who has the money to enforce their rights. And if you don’t have the money, I mean, my God, if you’re a small company, you could get shut down with going through a preliminary injunction motion. We did that one. It was $70,000 in that patent infringement case we did. That was three months and one preliminary injunction motion with no hearing. And it was almost 70 grand. So if you’re a small company, you have a really difficult time.

Thomas Colson:

So the question is in these trademark rights, what are the categories of trademarks significance? There’s totally made-up words. They’re called fanciful. And they’re really strong. They’re inherently distinct. So you can have a made-up word associated with your product and service. And as long as no one else is using it, you’ll get the trademark. And it’ll be really powerful in the marketplace. Then there’s arbitrary marks, which are like Apple for computers. It’s a regular word, but it has no connection to the product at all. Those are pretty strong too. Then the next layer of trademark significance is something called suggestive marks. Now those are trademarks that suggest the product or service, but they don’t describe the product or service.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Roach Motel.

Thomas Colson:

Yeah. And I never know whether Roach Motel is descriptive or suggestive. But let’s say suggestive. Or Coppertone. Coppertone is a good one. Because Coppertone, you’re making your skin have a copper tone, right? Arguably it’s descriptive. But typically the way you figure out whether it’s suggestive versus descriptive, which is an important line, by the way, you figure out, can you guess what it is. Like if I told you what Roach Motel was, you’d probably guessed that was a roach trap thing. That might be descriptive. But if I said Coppertone, you might be like, I don’t know, Coppertone, it could be a lot of things.

Thomas Colson:

One example that I lost on, but we should have won, I used to have a company called ip.com. And we filed for a trademark application on ip.com. We lost initially. We ended up getting it on another way that I’ll describe in a second. But they said it was descriptive, not suggestive. And I was thinking it was for a defensive publishing service. That’s not even technically IP. That’s not intellectual property. That’s the anti-intellectual property. Still we lost. And I think if we had had different counsel, we might’ve won.

Thomas Colson:

But anyway, so suggestive is next, then descriptive. So it goes fanciful, really strong, arbitrary, pretty strong, suggestive, sort of strong. Descriptive, technically you can’t get a trademark registration on a descriptive mark because they don’t want people taking descriptive terms out of the English language for competitive companies that want to use those to describe their products.

Raymond Guarnieri:

 Computer repair.

Thomas Colson:

Right. But there is one way you can get US federal trademark protection or federal trademark registration on something descriptive. And that’s if you acquire something called secondary meaning. In other words, even though it’s descriptive, Ray’s Computer Service is descriptive. Suddenly, you become the name in the world for computing services. And everyone knows if it’s not Ray’s it’s not computing services. You become so recognizable with Ray’s Computer Services that you can actually get secondary meaning and get a federal trademark registration.

Raymond Guarnieri:

The name doesn’t make sense to me. The term doesn’t make sense to me. Secondary meaning because it’s not like I became famous for making or serving spaghetti parm.

Thomas Colson:

Yeah. The first meaning is it’s descriptive, it’s a computer repair service. The secondary meaning is it’s unique because everyone associates the meaning of that term with you. So, if they call it like a-

Raymond Guarnieri:

Use, it’s secondary meaning.

Thomas Colson:

Yeah. Secondary meaning, exactly. So anyway, they get a trademark registration on superhero. I’m pretty sure it was because of their acquired secondary meaning. And basically they said, “When people think of superheroes, superhero comics, they think of DC Comics or Marvel.”

Thomas Colson:

Now, here’s one problem that jumped out at me. Typically, as far as I knew, now, I’m an intellectual property lawyer, but I don’t specialize in superhero characters on trademarks, but a trademark is anything that designates the source or origin of a product or service in the marketplace. That’s why I say it could be a word, a graphic, a logo, a sound. A sound, yes, a sound, a scent.

Thomas Colson:

But it’s supposed to designate the source or origin. This is two sources. This is DC Comics owned by Warner Brothers and Marvel owned by Disney. So it doesn’t really designate the source or origin of the product or service in the marketplace. Because if it’s true that superhero is a trademark and I get a comic book that has superhero and I see the superhero brand, I don’t know who owns it. So if I want to sue them or if I want to associate this quality, which is either good or bad to them, who is them? It could be DC Comics. It could be Marvel.

Thomas Colson:

So I think that’s weird. And if I were a lawyer handling this case, that’d be one thing I brought up is it’s not real because it has two sources. It doesn’t have a single source. And then the second thing, the biggest argument against, if someone’s opposing Ray. So you come up with Superhero Beards, right? And it’s not about a beard service. You have Superhero Beards for a computer service, so it’s arbitrary. Superhero Beards for a computer service. It’s arbitrary. It’s not fanciful, but it’s arbitrary. And that’s a pretty strong mark, right? And then they oppose you and they say, “You’re infringing because you’re using the term superhero.” And I would say, “Well, that term is generic.”

Thomas Colson:

So the fifth level of trademark discussion, I hate to say trademark significance, because if it’s generic, it doesn’t have any trademark significance, is generic. So it goes fanciful, like a made up word, arbitrary, a regular word on something that’s totally unrelated, suggestive, almost descriptive, but more of a suggestion. Then descriptive, which you can’t get protection unless you get secondary meaning. Then there’s generic. Generic is one of the more tragic situations in life. You know why? Because you have worked so hard and so diligently to become the most dominant player in your industry. And your name is known here far and wide. Everyone knows you. In fact, everyone knows you so well that they’re starting to use you, your brand, your trademark, your fantastic trademark as a noun to describe a category or as a verb.

Raymond Guarnieri:

There’s so many I want to say right now.

Thomas Colson:

I know. And I’ll give you some examples. I wrote down a few examples. These were marks that were powerful marks. They were so powerful that they dominated a category and became a noun or a verb. Aspirin or cellophane, dry ice, escalator, the flip phone. You might be too young to remember the flip phone, but that was a Motorola trademark. The flip phone. Now it’s a generic term. The zipper. The teleprompter. We use that, right? Teleprompter used to be a trademark, now it’s genericized and anyone can use it for-

Raymond Guarnieri:

These are all examples I didn’t know.

Thomas Colson:

Yeah. And also the trampoline. A trampoline that’s a cool name though. That’s not descriptive. It’s not even really suggestive, a trampoline.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Oh, is it even a word?

Thomas Colson:

I think it might be fanciful. But it became so powerful that now every kind of trampoline is just a trampoline. And then there’s some marks that aren’t yet generic that are at risk. And I’ll give you an example, Photoshop. That’s a mark owned by Adobe, but how many times do people say, “Oh, I want to Photoshop that.” Or Google. If Google wasn’t one of the most powerful companies on the planet, they would already be generic because everyone always says, “I want to Google that. You got to Google that.” When you start saying, “I got a Google that,” instead of “search that,” it’s generic. But it’s Google and they’re powerful. And they have really smart lawyers working on their side. Another one is that … Oh, one is roller blade. That’s actually inline skating. But how many times have people said, “I want to go rollerblading.” And they cringe. Oh, in fact, what was the good one? That awesome video that we saw by Gore.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Oh, Velcro.

Thomas Colson:

Velcro. Velcro. Yes. I love that video. They have this really funny, well produced video. In fact, they have two of them begging people to call it hook and loop instead of Velcro because if you don’t, they’re going to lose their trademark significance. And if you can, I don’t know if you can do this Ray, but if you can put that link up on this podcast, that’d be awesome.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Yeah. I’ll see. We’ll link it when we post it on LinkedIn.

Thomas Colson:

Okay, yeah because it’s a great video that talks … this describes the problem with trademarks like Velcro. That’s a great trademark, right? But it’s at risk of becoming generic. Another one that I was surprised at is realtor. Realtor is-

Raymond Guarnieri:

Who owned that?

Thomas Colson:

It is owned by the National Association of Realtors. But the term, just like roller blade is really inline skating, Rollerblade’s a brand, inline skating is the category. Well, real estate agents are the category and realtor is apparently their trademark. And it’s owned apparently by the National Association of Realtors. I just found that on Wikipedia. So I don’t know if it’s correct or not.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Interesting.  I never would have thought a difference between the two.

Thomas Colson:

I know. That’s the problem. I used to know this guy who worked at Xerox in the early days and he would beg people, “Don’t say, ‘I got to Xerox something,'” because they didn’t want to lose their trademark significance. So anyway, go back to superhero now. To me, superhero is a generic term to describe superheroes, right? I wrote down the Webster’s definition, “A fictional hero having extraordinary superhuman powers.” That is a superhero. And so if I were representing Ray in his Superhero Beards business, because you’re going to do a computer service and you want to trademark Superhero Beards, I’d say it’s a generic term. I applaud you Marvel and DC Comics because you guys created something that everyone knows now, and everyone uses it generically to describe a fictional hero having extraordinary superhuman powers.

Thomas Colson:

So anyone who watched the write it, Dr. Blink: Superhero Shrink, you should get to use it because I’m sure the book is something about maybe having counseling sessions with superheroes, right? Imagine Superman or Spider-Man laying on the couch and they’re talking to them about their childhood. And Superman from Krypton and how he lost his parents and he’s always depressed. So he’s going to have to go on Adderall because he can’t focus. I mean, Dr. Blink: Superhero Shrink, they should be able to use that, but they can’t because they’ve been opposed by Marvel and DC Comics. And I don’t know what the future holds. Maybe a superhero will fly in and defend Dr. Blink: Superhero Shrink in the opposition proceeding against DC Comics and Marvel and break that word free so that everybody can use it.

Raymond Guarnieri:

It’s very interesting. I think on one hand, and I don’t know would this be considered playing devil’s advocate, but when I think of superhero, if you just say just the word superhero, every example that I think of is owned by Marvel or DC.

Thomas Colson:

Yeah. And that’s probably their point.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Right. And so is that-

Thomas Colson:

But who’s it owned by? Who is it owned by, Marvel or DC?

Raymond Guarnieri:

I don’t know.

Thomas Colson:

If I had before this podcast started, if I had asked you who owns Batman, what would you have said?

Raymond Guarnieri:

No idea.

Thomas Colson:

Me either. Or Iron Man.

Raymond Guarnieri:

There’s a lot of people who do know that. And they’re like people are loyal to one or the other.

Thomas Colson:

Yeah. They’re cringing that we didn’t even know that.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Yeah. Which is why this will be, if ever we’re going to get hate comments, this is going to be the episode. 

Thomas Colson:

And I apologize to all superhero … because I love superheroes. I just don’t know a lot about superhero creation.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Please, if you’re watching this and you’re very upset right now, please tell us exactly why in the comments section, explain to us why we should care about this.

Thomas Colson:

And ideally, explain how we can become a superhero because I want to be one. If I have to jump into a vat of chemicals to be a superhero, I’ll do it. But I want to make sure it works first.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Right, exactly, yeah.

Thomas Colson:

Yeah.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Let’s not be the test subjects for that.

Thomas Colson:

Right, right. But anyway, yeah. I guess if I’m the lawyers for DC Comics and Marvel, I would say what you said. You think of superhero, you think of them. But the question is, superhero is a concept. And remember you have to associate superhero with a product or service in the marketplace to have trademark rights. So to say superhero as a concept, that’s not trademark protected. So what you should say is, if you see a restaurant that’s called Superhero Cafe, would you think of Marvel and DC Comics then? Before this podcast?

Raymond Guarnieri:

Well, I don’t know now because now I have the bias. But I guess what I would say is I would expect to walk into that cafe and see a bunch of superhero stuff on the walls.

Thomas Colson:

Okay, and then that would probably lend itself toward having protection. But then, if you see like the guy who went From Zero to Superhero, a business self-help book, what do you think-

Raymond Guarnieri:

Yeah. That I wouldn’t even think of comic books or any of the superheroes. I wouldn’t be thinking like, “Oh yeah, Batman, okay.”

Thomas Colson:

Exactly. You’d just be thinking, “Well, superhero is a generic term that-“

Raymond Guarnieri:

Yeah. I would think it’s like a get rich book or productivity book or any other kind of self-help book.

Thomas Colson:

And by the way, I think courts agreed with you because just before we started this podcast, I was searching, trying to find last minute stuff. And I saw a thing where a guy is holding his book and the title was like, Business Entrepreneur Beats DC Comics and Marvel. So I think at first he was getting pummeled by Iron Man and Superman and then-

Raymond Guarnieri:

He found a good patent law firm. law firm.

Thomas Colson:

In that case trademark law firm.

Raymond Guarnieri:

I have one last question because I think we’ve kind of tapped out this subject. But one interesting thought that I had as you were talking about these small businesses that are not even relevant to comic books and how they just get crushed by these huge companies with all this money and lawyers, is there any kind of association out there that helps small businesses that are in that kind of situation who believe that they’re being unfairly trampled upon?

Thomas Colson:

Yeah. Well, remember we talked a few weeks ago about the idea of setting up a GoFundMe account so that we could represent people whose rights are being trampled. But the issue though is you need to get somebody to volunteer to help you. And here’s the issue. If you have a personal injury case, you could go to a lawyer who will represent you on a contingent basis because they know that they’re going to recover money and they’ll get a piece of that. Or at least they believe they’re going to recover money.

Thomas Colson:

The problem is if the guy who owns From Zero to Superhero is being opposed by Marvel and DC Comics, he’s not going to get any money if he win, he’s just going to get his trademark. So no lawyer would represent him because there’s no way to get paid.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Right. There’s no damages.

Thomas Colson:

That’s challenge is you need to find someone who will volunteer because they believe, or maybe they’ll get famous. But that’s why the GoFundMe idea is a great idea because if the lawyer can’t make any money out of it, they need a way to win. Otherwise, they have to do their jobs. I mean, they got mortgages to pay, they’ve got college tuition to pay. They can’t afford to do all this stuff for free unless they’re getting something out of it.

Raymond Guarnieri:

So it would almost have to be kind of like a non-for-profit sort of venture, right? The people who are doing the work are getting compensated, but it’s not like a business, so to speak.

Thomas Colson:

That’s what I’m talking about. That’s why I’m saying setting up a GoFundMe site for individual types of things, like people having their rights trampled in trademarks. Although, you might not get a lot of enthusiasm. It’s hard to say, “I need money because my trademark rights are being infringed upon,” when there’s people dying of diseases and starving. It’s kind of hard to justify people contributing to that.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Right. There’s a funny comment about that. Velcro did that follow-up video to their original video. That was like, it was this comical video. We’re going to link it in the description, but it’s-

Thomas Colson:

And I think I like the follow-up one even more.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Yeah because a bunch of people came out and were like, “You bloodthirsty soulless lawyers and your first world problems.” And then Velcro doubled down and basically just sort of like took it and said, “Yeah, we don’t really care.”

Thomas Colson:

I loved it.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Made a follow-up video in the same line as the first one. It was hilarious. Hilarious.

Thomas Colson:

Yeah, I love it. So, make sure you put that up, Ray.

Raymond Guarnieri:

Yeah. Okay. Thanks everyone. If you enjoyed this podcast, please don’t forget to hit the subscribe button and that bell icon so you get notifications if you’re on YouTube. If you’re on LinkedIn, share your thoughts with us, tell us what heathens we are for not knowing which superhero is fit to which DC or Marvel. And thanks. Don’t forget to share.